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Post by Admin on Feb 8, 2013 0:03:14 GMT -5
Had the NetJets sales guy into the office today. While I understand they are the A team prices are close to double Avantair. Makes me believe Avantair is priced a little lower than they should be. New Phenom 300 is a nice plane but doesn't give much more capability than the Piaggio. Hard to stomach the price difference.
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NetJets
Jun 20, 2013 22:00:04 GMT -5
Post by onegoodyear on Jun 20, 2013 22:00:04 GMT -5
Had my Avantair flight canceled due to the "voluntary" stand down, the fifth and sixth flight I have needed an alternative for in the last six months. Called my guy at Netjets and he got me into a 400xp Marquis card. More expensive then Avantair, but worked as private aviation is suppose to work. My first flight was a 900xp and the second was an Excel. Netjets is retiring the 400xp and the Encore leading to most flights being Excels and above.
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NetJets
Jun 21, 2013 11:23:37 GMT -5
Post by jetdrvr2008 on Jun 21, 2013 11:23:37 GMT -5
Not a fan of NetJets at all. They're far too proud of their program from price point, Plus, they tend to nickel & dime you to death with additional charges. There are a couple of other providers I like much better. The best by far was always Citation Shares. Too bad Cessna pulled the plug on them. Flexjet has a great mix of planes and their pricing and service is excellent. I'd like to learn more about Executive Air Shares. Has anyone here used them, or considered using them? I really like their one way and round trip pricing, but are they exclusive to the Central US?
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NetJets
Jun 21, 2013 21:33:42 GMT -5
Post by n14xsl on Jun 21, 2013 21:33:42 GMT -5
Have a look at JetSuite. At the time I bought my second set of shares with Avantair one of my business partners went with JS. I was quite smug at the time that I had gotten a better plane for less money. And at the time, even he agreed.
My last three failed attempts at flying Avantground (I love that, TMCGOWAN, I'm definitely stealing it) have resulted in my having to beg and plead with my partner to let me use his JetSuite hours. He has, quite graciously, obliged every time. Even with VERY short notice, they have been there on time (or early) every time. Very nice planes, and excellent crews, as well.
I agree with you, JETDRVR, about NetJets. I've had the opportunity to ride with them a few times as well. It is absolutely top notch service with fantastic aircraft, but simply too rich for my blood. I'm not familiar with Executive Air Shares. I'd be curious to hear what you learn about them.
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NetJets
Jun 21, 2013 22:41:45 GMT -5
Post by hrofcr on Jun 21, 2013 22:41:45 GMT -5
After the October stand down, we spent November and December doing demo flights with various providers, to get a feel for their aircraft.
We almost immediately discounted NetJets because of the cost, and it appears several people among us feel that way.
We ended up prepaying (card members) with Flexjets and JetSuites. The Lear 40 and its flat floor work really well with our dogs, and we're finding that on certain flights, the additional cost per hour is offset somewhat by the higher speed. Flexjet is in the process of phasing out the 40s, and we'll just see what happens one or two years in the future.
JetSuite's Phenom 100 is almost as economical as the P180, and is MORE economical when we factor in that we own 1/16th of a plane that we can't give away. The JetSuite web site gives one the opportunity to do some price comparisons for specific flights.
For most of our flight purposes, the Lear 40 works the best, but there are some specific flights for which the Phenom 100 works better than almost any available aircraft.
Ultimately, all us P180 flyers will have to figure out what suits their needs best - - even to the point of trying to deal with Avantair going out of business - whether it's bankruptcy-aided, or they just turn off the lights, lock (or not) the doors, and drive home.
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NetJets
Jun 21, 2013 22:51:31 GMT -5
Post by hrofcr on Jun 21, 2013 22:51:31 GMT -5
Just walked out to watch the International Space Station fly over - - how can we hitch a ride on that baby?
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NetJets
Jun 21, 2013 23:00:34 GMT -5
Post by hrofcr on Jun 21, 2013 23:00:34 GMT -5
We are also looking at Flight Options - but don't have a feel for what the actual per hour costs will be.
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NetJets
Jun 22, 2013 14:19:52 GMT -5
Post by jetdrvr2008 on Jun 22, 2013 14:19:52 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback. Made a few calls and it appears that Executive Airshare might be a good option to look into for myself. They fly pretty much anywhere that everyone else does, but they focus their customer base in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas & Missouri. Phenom 100 & 300's and a fleet of King Air 350's. Cost per hour is on par with Avantground (Yes, I've borrowed it too). Spoke with a long-term customer who had previously been with Flight Options & NetJets. Said that Airshares has never missed a flight in over 5 years and only been late a couple of times. She said "Stay the hell away from Flight Options." Won't go into details, but the story sounds far too familiar to what we're experiencing here. The ability to downgrade to a King Air for shorter trips appeals to me too.
Flexjet might be an option as well but I wonder about them since NetJets is now adding Challengers to their fleet in very large numbers. Could Flexjet end up being acquired by NetJets, or even relegated to being a Learjet only program? One thing is for certain, the industry is changing drastically right now.
Have tried JetSuites in the past and they also bait & switch on pricing. Had a quote for a trip, the itinerary came back about $400 per hour higher then they tried to charge me even more. Said it was due to landing fees, segment taxes, etc. This for a flight from St. Louis to Houston & back! Be very carful with them.
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NetJets
Jun 24, 2013 8:25:55 GMT -5
Post by n106slshareowner on Jun 24, 2013 8:25:55 GMT -5
Like everyone else I am searching for a new provider. I have been deluged with offers as the sharks are circling Avantair. Does anyone have any experience with or heard anything about Sentient? They have a reasonably priced option but as I found with Avantair the cheapest doesn't mean that they are reliable or stable. I have owned my share for about five years and up until the October fiasco they were great but since then they have been a disaster. How about PlaneSense? The Pilatus is smaller and a lot slower, but for a lot of my flights it will work fine and its the cheapest per hour but I haven't done the per mile math yet.
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NetJets
Jun 24, 2013 11:29:04 GMT -5
Post by eric777 on Jun 24, 2013 11:29:04 GMT -5
We flew this weekend with JetSuite, and we were quite impressed. The all inclusive price estimate was less costly than flying the Piaggio, though with only four seats, one could say that a price comparison is not truly realistic. In the end, I thought it was a good value.
From start to finish, we had a great experience. The flight was on time, the crew was incredibly friendly, and the plane itself was really nice. Though the Piaggio does hold a fair amount of baggage, the Phenom 100 holds an incredible amount of bags - in our case, 4 bags (checked size for an airline), 6 roll-aboard pieces, 5 soft sided duffles, and several other misc bags. The pilot even showed me there was room for more bags.....for such a small plane, it really is quite spacious.
The interior is roomy for four, and ideal for 1-2 hour flights. JetSuite has also thought of everything - Bose noise cancelling headsets, XMradio and a well outfitted snack/drink galley area. Though the Phenom cabin height is not as tall or wide as the Piaggio, the Phenom did not seem as "tight" as the Citation V charters we've had in the past.
The plane is very quiet, and seems quite stable/rigid even in the light turbulence we encountered. And though the Bose headsets are nice, they are certainly not necessary (though having XM Radio inflight is GREAT). The cabin is quiet enough to hold a normal conversation.
Though we often need 6-7 seats on a private plane, I would not hesitate to fly with JetSuite again if we were only traveling with 4 total passengers.
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NetJets
Jun 24, 2013 11:54:20 GMT -5
Post by jetdrvr2008 on Jun 24, 2013 11:54:20 GMT -5
Sentient is just a charter operator. They were acquired by Flight Options a year or so ago. While their pricing is very competitive I never liked the lack of consistency. For one flight we had a very new, clean CJ3 for the trip out, then for the return had an old Lear 35 that was very tired looking. My wife didn't care for the appearance of the plane and cared even less for the crew who seemed to be less interested in providing good customer service. They were too busy discussing the previous nights ballgame with the girl at the counter at the FBO.
My conversation with Executive Airshare was most enlightening. They offer an interesting lease concept. Pricing is comparable to the P-180 card but with the round trip pricing it's considerably less. They sell their program as a day based program as opposed to hour based. Seems to be geared more towards the business flier who makes lots of same day, or one overnight type trips. This scenario makes them by far the lowest priced provider of anything other than straight charter. My flying would probably fall into the round trip pricing option 50% of the time. My sales guy is doing an analysis to compare how their program would compare to how I've been flying.
When you factor in the lease payment and hourly cost they come in at around $3,700 per hour "all in". I do like that they don't add a fuel surcharge, instead adjusting the hourly rate monthly as fuel prices vary. I'm looking forward to giving them a try in a week or so. As 106slshareowner said, the sharks are certainly circling. I'm hearing from companies I've never even heard of, nor can find much information on either. Certainly will rely on references much more this time around though.
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NetJets
Jun 24, 2013 12:05:03 GMT -5
Post by onegoodyear on Jun 24, 2013 12:05:03 GMT -5
Over the last six month we have needed to use just about everyone to salvage flights significantly delayed or canceled by Avantair.
JetSuite is great. Only flew the CJ3, as that is what they generally fly on the East Coast. I would echo the previous comments. Nothing but a great flying experience. Only negative was my last quote. I needed to fly two one hour legs, one day apart. The pricing was $7,000 and hour. I asked if the pricing would be equal to what was on website if I put down the $50,000 deposit, and the answer was no. They needed to cover the reposition as they did not have enough planes on the East Coast yet.
Citationair only does charter, but I have found their pricing is usually very competitive ($4,000 an hour range for CJ3). I had the same problem/ pricing for the trip JetSuite priced at $7,000 an hour.
XOJet saved me several times, but quite expensive.
Settled for a Marquis Jet 400xp card. It means flying privately less often, but I don't have to worry about my flights or my money disappearing, plus I can hope for an upgrade every time I book a flight.
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NetJets
Jun 24, 2013 22:11:28 GMT -5
Post by jetdrvr2008 on Jun 24, 2013 22:11:28 GMT -5
Onegoodyear, what is the all in cost for the Marquis card per hour? Anyone else have any experience as to how often they're getting upgraded? It seems as though it's way more expensive than Avantair or even some of the other options available. I don't want to go with Sentient or Jet Linx at all. I want more consistency than charter provides, but at a reasonable cost. I know what the sales guys say, but would appreciate some "real" feedback.
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NetJets
Jun 25, 2013 5:43:38 GMT -5
Post by onegoodyear on Jun 25, 2013 5:43:38 GMT -5
My hourly costs all in (includes FET and Fuel) is $6,200. I have flown two one hour flights. First flight they sent a 900xp. Second flight they had me scheduled for an XLS. I asked to move the flight up two hours to avoid expected thunderstorms. The plane scheduled wouldn't be able to make the earlier time, so they sent a different XLS and were there two hours earlier then the new flight time.
I will fly privately half as much because of the higher pricing, but I need a year or two of knowing that my plane will be there when I am scheduled to fly.
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NetJets
Jun 25, 2013 8:49:59 GMT -5
Post by jetdrvr2008 on Jun 25, 2013 8:49:59 GMT -5
My business often requires day trips with 2 or 3 stops anywhere from 100 to 200 miles apart. None of the fractional providers are very open to that type of flying. As I said, I don't like charter so that leaves me with few options.
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