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Post by Disenchanted on Aug 6, 2013 13:53:59 GMT -5
I've tried to be patient. It's been almost 2 months since I received a paycheck; between Avantair's inability to pay me for work done, and for my inability to secure gainful employment as of yet.
I've tried to be patient. The communication from the company has been near non-existent, and any communication I do get is more bad news. No you're not getting paid, yes, you are furloughed, no, you will not have medical insurance for more than 5 days from now, no, you are not eligible for COBRA, and no, you can't withdraw your 401k because technically, you're still an employee of this great company.
I've tried to be patient. I have withheld most negative comments from this forum because of some ill-fated thought that the company would get mad at me. I'm holding onto the fact that I was a Manager and somehow was better than that. I'm not sure what I was holding on to. The proverbial screws are just hovering under the waterline, just waiting for the ship to sink to the bottom. There's no one left that I care to impress anymore.
I've tried to be patient. I have about 90% of the owner's contact information in my possession, but I have not proactively sought out putting owners together for profit. Maybe I should get in that game; everyone else is trying to get a piece. Maybe it's too late.
I am no longer patient.
The company has interrupted so many people's lives. Some professional people are on food stamps and Medicaid because of this company. Many people are breaking into their life savings to stay afloat because of this company. Some are being evicted from their homes because of this company.
Where is the justice? Where is the government oversight of a public traded, FAA certificated company? Where are the people in handcuffs? Where is their pain? Where are all the people that would be knocking on my door if I didn't pay my rent, insurance or other fiduciary obligations?
A deserted headquarters with the doors unlocked? Are you kidding me? "It appears some offices were cleared out." Shocker...
How is this happening? Really, WTF! Where is the real world oversight? The stock is still trading? No one has interviewed Santo since this happened? What the hell is happening here?
I am absolutely flabbergasted that the dogs of hell haven't rained upon the business and put a stop to all this foolishness. Really, come on now! What else has to happen at this point to get someone's attention.
Years from now Santo will be interviewed and he will say, "We were going to come back, but they forced an involuntary bankruptcy on us." This is leading right into his plan.
So the company's bankrupt. And we all move on. That's it, huh? That's all there is? Everyone gets a slim dime from the office furniture they sell at auction to settle the bankruptcy.
And Santo still has his house, his cars, his boats, his island retreat... and mostly, his money.
The Board, who has been shockingly SILENT, goes on with their lives, sitting on someone's else Board, joking about this one at cocktail parties.
No wonder there is corporate crime in America. There's no reason not to get in that racket.
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Post by p180pilot on Aug 6, 2013 15:14:13 GMT -5
Send me a PM with your email. I have plenty of info.
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Post by Kevin Flinstone on Aug 7, 2013 15:09:12 GMT -5
"Years from now Santo will be interviewed and he will say, "We were going to come back, but they forced an involuntary bankruptcy on us." This is leading right into his plan."
With any luck this interview will take place through prison bars.
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Aug 7, 2013 15:49:56 GMT -5
Nah, it was all the pilot Union's fault....
Things were going great here before Feb. 14, 2013... LOL.
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Post by hotxfil on Aug 7, 2013 20:02:56 GMT -5
Counterpoint:
I feel for the former employees in a shitty position. I've been there before myself in this industry. That said:
SO many people saw this coming. MANY of us said so out loud. MOST of us either quit because of it, were fired, or forced to resign for daring to speak out. MOST of the rest of the employees, pilots in particular, sat by and did or said nothing. Including the revered chief pilot. Some even assumed that we who were ushered out the door were at fault. You don't hear from most of us here, now, because we've all moved on. Some of us--me, admittedly--are just morbidly fascinated by the debacle.
You couldn't have possibly NOT heard us, especially if you were a pilot. You PROBABLY saw what we were talking about firsthand, probably more than once. YOU CHOSE to stay.
We SO informed you thusly. You've arrived at the rail and all the lifeboats are gone. You have no one to blame but yourself.
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Post by hotxfil on Aug 7, 2013 22:26:09 GMT -5
AethiestRealist2, that's exactly the reaction I expected to having the cold, hard truth pointed out to you. Thanks for not disappointing me. If you really were a realist, you'd have skipped the emotional rant and absorbed the message.
You can file your hurt feelings report with company management. I hear the doors are unlocked these days.
You don't even know who I am, so to say that you heard my skepticsm is disingenuous, at best. Calling me a whining pussy is nothing more than the rant of a man bent on blaming anyone but himself for his predicament. Based on all the information coming out here from people who knew what was going on but weren't saying anything for fear of management retaliation, you had your head buried in the sand. Based on the number of people who have said right here on these boards that they WOULD go back if they could, plenty still do.
I saw the potential of Avantair too, that's why I came aboard. When I saw the obvious truth, however, I started making alternate plans. That plain truth was there for anybody who was paying attention to see. I was fortunate in that when I was forced to resign or be fired over hurt management feelings for doing something that wasn't illegal, prohibited, or unsafe, I had a backup plan already in place. And the CP did nothing but sit by and let it happen. I know what true integrity and professionalism look like, I've spent my whole life around it. There were some in Avantair who had it. Those who sat idly by and let good people get screwed and said nothing to protect their jobs are not those people. Not an insult, a statement of fact.
As for feeding my some of my own teeth: Grow up, dude.
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Post by Interview on Aug 7, 2013 22:50:25 GMT -5
(Interview in progress) Mgr: " I see here, you were the Chief Pilot at Avantair.... What happened" CP: " management kept the poor performance of the company to themselves" Mgr: "You didn't see a problem when only 12 out of 55 aircraft were flyable? CP: "No, scheduling was a lot easier..." Mgr: " Even after the utter fail, do your people still think highly of you?" CP: "they love me, I was an awesome Chief Pilot" Mgr: " maybe awesome, but your not going to be a good fit here... Thanks for your time, but I'm looking for a leader, not a buddy”
Stockholm syndrome, much? Why blame SS and KM but not the CP. Deemed to fail again....
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Post by Volunteer on Aug 8, 2013 9:48:37 GMT -5
The financial company that manages the 401K plan should be upfront with you about what you can or cannot do. If they are not forthcoming I would set up an IRA with a discount firm (someone like Scott Trade) and be ready transfer the money by wire as soon as possible. This means getting the forms beforehand from the current trustee. This trustee of the Avantair plan has a fiduciary responsibility to you, which means among other things, not jerking you around now.
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Post by p180pilot on Aug 8, 2013 10:08:47 GMT -5
Tough call.
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Post by Funny on Aug 8, 2013 10:12:04 GMT -5
This post is funny. Now we even have a moron bringing politics into it which makes it even more entertaining.
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Post by Ron Burgandy on Aug 8, 2013 12:11:49 GMT -5
Wow, this escalated quickly.
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Post by Former Owner on Aug 8, 2013 14:09:58 GMT -5
The vulgar language and personal attacks (not to mention the disgusting and sexist remarks) really demonstrate the "professionalism" of this group of aviators.
Please respect that this is an OWNER board and you should save your remarks for a more appropriate forum, and I humbly suggest, as your former client, that you reconsider your overall approach to life completely.
Your anger is understandable, but your display of that anger and your attacks are not helping you or your cause in the eyes of this former client and potential future client. Do you want our sympathy and support? Then please let's stick to facts or find some other board to turn into a cesspool.
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Post by ninetynines on Aug 9, 2013 13:24:54 GMT -5
I agree, Former Owner. I am offended by the response to Disenchanted. Thank you AethiestRealist2 and others for deleting your offensive posts. I'm sure they were posted in the heat of anger and frustration over this entire ordeal. I am a female pilot and did not fly for Avantair but my husband did. It is unfortunate that there was not more transparency with Avantair, especially where the owners are concerned. My husband flew for Avantair for 5 years and was previously a captain for the airlines and corporate aircraft. He left Avantair late last year because he saw the writing on the wall. Prior to leaving, several pilots were fired at various times when they tried to come forward with the truth about the safety issues and shoddy maintenance at Avantair. Most of the pilots he flew with openly shared his frustration. He warned several of his more trusted fellow pilots, telling them that "the writing is on the wall" and urging them to find alternate employment. Now some have told him that they could see the company was going down but couldn't justify giving up their paychecks. Senior captains at Avantair earned upwards of $90,000. To start over with an airline meant taking a huge cut in pay. In the end it seems that it came down to money for some. My husband chose to take the cut and find a job where he felt safe and secure. Ironically, his new job is flying EMS helicopters which is considered one of the most dangerous professions in America. But he feels safer than he did flying for Avantair. I think that says it all.
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Aug 9, 2013 15:38:38 GMT -5
The truth, 99 and Hotx, is that we felt that Avantair was worth fighting for......
That's why we stayed. We brought on a Union at the end, but we had waited too long. Steve's disinformation affected the pilots as much as the Owners. Had we Organized when given the chance in 2010, many of these problems would have been brought to light sooner when the Union (the pilots) would have been able look into the books. And had the mechanics organized, they might not have been terminated unceremoniously like they were or ordered by Management to violate FAR's.
Even at the end, Avantair was still one of the best pay and schedule non-Netjet, non-Major flying jobs out there. We had Captains on a 7/7 schedule making TRIPLE what they could make as a regional FO and nearly double what a regional Captain made. Avantair was a lifeboat for many of us former 121 types, who had been furloughed from airlines flying big equiptment: We even recently hired a furloughed UPS pilot! Think about that... Why did he come here and why did we stay? There was no place else decent to go where we could come even close to the standard of living a Captain at VNR enjoyed. And I felt that I determined my own safety. If it was broken, I very respectfully told Maintenance Control that I would be happy to MEL-it and fly or help them find maintenance on the field. I never gave them the option of asking me to take it, saying "well, obvioulsly we have to ground it here then.." Of course, I was only a Captain for two years, so I can't speak for everyone else or the old days...
And who could have imagined that the Board would have allowed Santo and McKamey to stay in charge, despite all the obvious failures? We felt for certain that the new management from former FAA Cann on down to the new VP of OPS, would help to rinse away the old stench of 134 & 1/2 mentality that Santo and McKamey espoused. Given the right management team and parts support from Piaggio, we could have made it or at the very least died a much more dignified death.
Sadly, Avantair and the Avanti's huge potential and reputation will be forever sullied by Avantair managements hubris, greed, and lack of ethics.
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Post by firedog on Aug 9, 2013 16:30:37 GMT -5
I agree, Former Owner. I am offended by the response to Disenchanted. Thank you AethiestRealist2 and others for deleting your offensive posts. I'm sure they were posted in the heat of anger and frustration over this entire ordeal. I am a female pilot and did not fly for Avantair but my husband did. It is unfortunate that there was not more transparency with Avantair, especially where the owners are concerned. My husband flew for Avantair for 5 years and was previously a captain for the airlines and corporate aircraft. He left Avantair late last year because he saw the writing on the wall. Prior to leaving, several pilots were fired at various times when they tried to come forward with the truth about the safety issues and shoddy maintenance at Avantair. Most of the pilots he flew with openly shared his frustration. He warned several of his more trusted fellow pilots, telling them that "the writing is on the wall" and urging them to find alternate employment. Now some have told him that they could see the company was going down but couldn't justify giving up their paychecks. Senior captains at Avantair earned upwards of $90,000. To start over with an airline meant taking a huge cut in pay. In the end it seems that it came down to money for some. My husband chose to take the cut and find a job where he felt safe and secure. Ironically, his new job is flying EMS helicopters which is considered one of the most dangerous professions in America. But he feels safer than he did flying for Avantair. I think that says it all.
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