|
Post by hrofcr on Apr 26, 2013 12:22:26 GMT -5
Thanks, tmcgowan, for finding this. According to FlightAware, the only P180 that landed at PIE on Wednesday afternoon was 139SL. It had not flown since January 2, when it last landed at PIE (maintenance?). The flight preceding the landing shown in the news article was from PIE out over the Gulf, making several elongated circles, then returning to PIE. Total flight was about 1:40 long. It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like the port landing gear might have partially or fully collapsed.
|
|
|
Post by StevenSanto on Apr 27, 2013 5:27:21 GMT -5
This was a second test flight to conduct RVSM certification that is why the plane circled over the gulf and to test a new gear that was just put on the plane. Upon landing the steering failed and it couldn't taxi back. There was no damage. It appears the steering actuator failed on the new gear. That's why we do these test flights. We have asked the news station to print a retraction.
|
|
|
Post by concerned on Apr 28, 2013 12:04:59 GMT -5
Reading this from a pilots perspective is creating a nauseous feeling in my gut. Aviation is not an industry that is kind to financial weakness. This country is littered with pieces of aluminum and human remains from near bankrupt operators. .15 stock price, missing payroll, incident after incident, FAA shutdown, I would not let my worst enemy near an Avanitair aircraft, or one of the "charters" they are supplementing themselves with. Avantair is done, there is no coming back. Avanitair and the fractional model is dead, with the exception of Flexjet and Netjets, both companies backed by well financed parent companies, parent companies that have a great deal at stake as far as liability.
I have flown in the corporate industry for 20 years and without hesitation, I would trust my used car salesman before I would trust 90% of the "charter" operators out there. Save yourself, walk away and find your own partner who is committed to a quality and safe operation and operate the aircraft yourself. I'm sure you could buy one of the P180s at pennies on the dollar and hire a couple of quality pilots from Avantair to fly it for you. Make it clear to the pilots safety is number one, pay them, feed them, and provide decent rest accommodations and your real risk from dying in one of those planes will be reduced tenfold. Literally, I obviously can't pinpoint the numbers, but your chances of dying in a plane operated by Avantair or a shady charter operator has to be ten times what it is normally.
Look back at all the corporate accidents in the last 20 years, 90% of the fatalities are from no name charter operators. Payne Stewart in the Lear , Telluride in the Challenger,Teterboro in the Challenger, Aspen in the G3, Houston in the G3, all financially strained lowball charter operators.
Either buy your own plane or go with Flex or NJA. Good luck to all of you and to all of the hard working employees at Avaintair.
|
|
lgb
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by lgb on Apr 28, 2013 17:16:00 GMT -5
"Upon landing the steering failed and it couldn't taxi back. There was no damage."
Hard to believe that there was no damage to the plane when the landed gear failed.
|
|
lgb
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by lgb on Apr 28, 2013 17:17:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by flyavanti on Apr 28, 2013 17:40:36 GMT -5
Reading this from a pilots perspective is creating a nauseous feeling in my gut. Aviation is not an industry that is kind to financial weakness. This country is littered with pieces of aluminum and human remains from near bankrupt operators. .15 stock price, missing payroll, incident after incident, FAA shutdown, I would not let my worst enemy near an Avanitair aircraft, or one of the "charters" they are supplementing themselves with. Avantair is done, there is no coming back. Avanitair and the fractional model is dead, with the exception of Flexjet and Netjets, both companies backed by well financed parent companies, parent companies that have a great deal at stake as far as liability. I have flown in the corporate industry for 20 years and without hesitation, I would trust my used car salesman before I would trust 90% of the "charter" operators out there. Save yourself, walk away and find your own partner who is committed to a quality and safe operation and operate the aircraft yourself. I'm sure you could buy one of the P180s at pennies on the dollar and hire a couple of quality pilots from Avantair to fly it for you. Make it clear to the pilots safety is number one, pay them, feed them, and provide decent rest accommodations and your real risk from dying in one of those planes will be reduced tenfold. Literally, I obviously can't pinpoint the numbers, but your chances of dying in a plane operated by Avantair or a shady charter operator has to be ten times what it is normally. Look back at all the corporate accidents in the last 20 years, 90% of the fatalities are from no name charter operators. Payne Stewart in the Lear , Telluride in the Challenger,Teterboro in the Challenger, Aspen in the G3, Houston in the G3, all financially strained lowball charter operators. Either buy your own plane or go with Flex or NJA. Good luck to all of you and to all of the hard working employees at Avaintair. Your wild assumptions are ridiculous. This is all speculation on your part. You are just as safe with avantair as with NJ or any other fractional operator.
|
|
|
Post by tmcgowan on Apr 29, 2013 10:41:42 GMT -5
Yes, there may be some wild assumptions in there, but there must also be a realization that there is some truth in there. Putting the safety issue aside, (not an easy thing to do), who is going to buy an Avantair share any time soon, new or used? This is not good if you are the salesperson charged with selling new customers or the current owner trying to sell your existing share. I'm sorry to say that they have already destroyed any value in your asset. The third line says "Avantair is done, there is no coming back".
|
|
|
Post by flyavanti on Apr 29, 2013 14:57:36 GMT -5
I don't care what the third line says looking at its source. That is one person's opinion. I believe there is still a chance for Avantair to succeed with the right leadership.
|
|
|
Post by hrofcr on Apr 29, 2013 21:48:18 GMT -5
When all of this started with the stand down, fractrade.com had some 20+ P180 fractional interests listed on its web site. As the problems continued well beyond the initially promised three weeks (or so), fractrade.com's listings expanded to 30 or so. Tonight, they have 35 listings. Only fractrade knows how many "pocket" listings they have.
Yes, we are all posting anonymously, meaning that unless we get really slanderous or libelous in our posts, no one will know or care who we really are, where we work, what our biases are, or whether we might be some Internet lurkers who stumbled on this site.
I know that I have not flown on the P180 since before the stand down. I know that I will never again fly on one. I know that the only redeemable facet of this debacle is that my fractional interest has been fully depreciated to -0-, which I believe to be more than it is worth "on the open market".
"flyavanti" says that he still believes that the company can survive with the right leadership. I cannot disagree with his observatIon. My only questions are:
1. Who is going to replace this Board of Directors that, apparently, keeps saying, "Yes, Mr. Santo."
2. How much of a cash infusion will be necessary to restore the company to one which fulfills its promises to its existing fractional owners, as contrasted to flying card "owners" or even charter customers (if they are doing that)?
3. Who is going to find the "right leadership"? And what happens if the finders are wrong?
Purely my personal thoughts on what it will take to turn this company around:
a. Some entity with very deep pockets, who can come in and immediately commit the capital necessary to both buy out enough fractional owners to create a base fleet, and to make the people who have kept the P180 "faith" comfortable about the future.
b. Make sure that there is nothing out there lurking in the hallways of the FAA which might derail the efforts.
c. Figure out where the ten aircraft are that have not flown since the stand down, and whether they are in any condition to fly, or what it might take to make them airworthy.
d. How does the company keep the very good customer service people on payroll while "we" go through the remake?
I believe the real solution to salvaging Avantair is a structured Chapter 11 bankruptcy, under which there is a willing buyer waiting in the wings to purchase all of the alleged "assets" of the company; who can immediately buy out the dissatisfied fractional interests at a minimal price; who can disclose, prior to the final order, what fees, operating costs, management fees, etc., will have to be going forward.
I just do not see any such white knight appearing out of the mists of the future.
|
|
|
Post by tmcgowan on Apr 30, 2013 11:19:43 GMT -5
hrofcr,
Good observations.
How long do you think it will take to sell 35+ fractional shares that are part of a company that you don't want to fly?
My point exactly. The damage has already been done.
It is great that you have zero value in your aircraft. Some of us are not so lucky.
What if you find out you are the owner of a pile of pieces on a hanger floor? Somebody is?
|
|
|
Post by hrofcr on Apr 30, 2013 16:16:18 GMT -5
Thankfully, my tail number is flying.
If, however, I were one of the owners of a tail number which has not flown since the stand down, I think I would show up at Clearwater and demand to see my plane. If the allegations about pirating parts are true, my next stop would be the local U S Attorney's office.
|
|
|
Post by tmcgowan on May 1, 2013 10:47:07 GMT -5
I received managements letter yesterday.
We are now being told the companies problems have been caused by owners not paying their bills? He fails to mention how many stopped paying them after the company broke its agreements with the owners? How many have already hired counsel who have advised them and/or filed suit? you must know that if you don't honor your agreements people will stop paying for your services?
I will now stop reading the "update newsletters" from management. I also have not bothered to attend the calls. I really don't need Steve telling me it's everyone else's fault.
Nothing but lies, deceit and cover up since the beginning. My opinion. I didn't start out here...I've just ended up here. Sorry.
|
|
|
Post by flyavanti on May 2, 2013 16:12:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hrofcr on May 3, 2013 23:04:25 GMT -5
The veracity of this article can be determined in the first paragraph, where the reporter alludes to the 57 planes in the fleet. This follows by only a short period of time Santo's admission that they have only 45 planes available to them (in the recap of the first conference call with owners).
I'm supposed to take the rest of the article as accurate?
"Fool me once, your fault; fool me twice, my fault".
|
|
|
Post by tmcgowan on May 6, 2013 10:59:02 GMT -5
I have a company with 57 computers. Occasionally we misplace one because of moves, adds, changes, etc. They cost $500 each.
These are $7million airplanes. I hope management hasn't misplaced 12 of them.
|
|