aguy
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by aguy on Apr 20, 2013 15:31:34 GMT -5
Heard through the grapevine that Avantair payroll did not clear to all the operations people yesterday. Pilots, Customer service, dispatchers, etc.
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Post by tmcgowan on Apr 22, 2013 10:57:02 GMT -5
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Post by hrofcr on Apr 23, 2013 22:24:54 GMT -5
Any thoughts or comments or new information on Steve's conference call today at 10:30 AM, eastern time?
I had a previously scheduled meeting, and couldn't participate.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Apr 24, 2013 2:07:17 GMT -5
It was a long call (2.5 hours), and they very patiently answered everyone's questions. They said they were going to distribute a written summary of the call, so that will probably give you a more-complete update. Generally seemed positive and they sounded like they thought the worst was behind them, but that's obviously not the first time we've heard that. They also acknowledged that they had a ways to go to regain owner confidence. 75% of the questions were of the "how can we work together to fix this" flavor and the other 25% were of a more cranky flavor. Still some inconsistencies, like what was the reason for missing a payroll last Friday, where I heard a different answer on the call from my "understanding" of what happened from chatting with a few folks, but apparently everyone's been paid now (a normally very-responsive friend within the company never answered my e-mail asking what happened, which seemed to indicate it might have been a bigger deal than they wanted to discuss). And ironically, while I was on the call I missed a call from OS informing me that a friend's flight was delayed six hours for a mechanical issue (he ended up leaving only about two hours late). So it still sounds like they've got a ways to go. As always, I hope they pull through, and I thought today's call was a positive step towards some open dialogue and increased transparency, both of which have been lacking.
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Post by 1hyfin on Apr 24, 2013 9:35:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the update on the call. I represent several Avantair owners, and I would like to be able to participate in the conference calls. Could you send me the information on how to connect to future calls?
Thanks
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Post by hrdcount on Apr 24, 2013 9:42:53 GMT -5
It would be very interesting to hear how many sales are taking place?? I decided to put my share up for sale in January and have not even received a offer. With employees being paid late, what seems to be a lack of sales, stock price falling, and still not having all planes flying, all these signs point to bigger problems than what we are being told. It would be nice if they would be upfront so we can save the little bit of equity we have!!!!!! Think about it Steve!!
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Post by tmcgowan on Apr 24, 2013 10:26:49 GMT -5
I share your concern about sales. Given the current state of affairs, how are we ever to find someone who will want to buy our aircraft? Does anyone have any experience with a sale, or better yet, what options are really available when your current contract is up?
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flyer
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by flyer on Apr 24, 2013 10:37:09 GMT -5
The best way to preserve our investments is to work with the company and be flexible in your trip scheduling option, to pay your bills when due assuming the company is working with you to meet their obligations as best they can. We all loose if Avantair does not survive. An informed ownership is best for all as it promotes cooperation and does not ferment distrust and anger.
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Post by flyavanti on Apr 24, 2013 12:15:30 GMT -5
Pilots are hurting as well. In the last 7 months they have had a pay freeze, had per diem cut in half, had vacation benefits reduced, and lost 401k match. I think they are losing several pilots a month as they find other aviation jobs. Times are tough for the pilots as well as the owners.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Apr 24, 2013 12:19:35 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Flyer, that our best (and perhaps only viable) option is to help Avantair help itself and us. Last time I looked, there was a glut of fractional interests on the market, and Steve speculated on the call that the value of a used (ten-year-old, in the case of the question on the call) Piaggo was slightly less than its value as a sum of fractional interests. While I suspect they weren't quite as forthcoming as they could have been, I did think that they were being pretty straightforward on the call, and many people certainly didn't get exceptionally positive answers to their questions, but they sounded like fairly honest answers. I went through a similar issue with a fractional real estate interest in Sedona a few years ago, and once people stopped paying, it created a death spiral of sorts. It's not clear to me that Avantair's business model is sustainable at its current rates, although those rates seem to be significantly less that what we'd be paying for a less-comfortable (albeit longer-range) small jet. I wonder whether they'd let some owner (or group of owners) with a financial/operational background review things from the inside and give an unbiased report to the owner group. If they didn't want to, they would likely raise the "public company" thing, but that seems surmountable and really just something to hide behind. It seems like owners need some confidence beyond just what we're hearing from management.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Apr 24, 2013 13:43:52 GMT -5
As a follow-on to my previous post, I just sent Steve an e-mail suggesting an owner surveillance committee of sorts. I used to serve on the Owner Advisory Committee years ago, but what I was suggesting here was something more in-depth and more intrusive to the company. Below is my e-mail exchange with Steve, since I thought his immediate willingness to do it was in itself a positive statement worth passing along.
Marc
It's a good idea as long as its not disruptive to the business and viewed by employees as something it isn't then it works for us.
Steven Santo Avantair, Inc
On Apr 24, 2013, at 1:32 PM:
Hey Steve and David:
I've been thinking about yesterday's call and the on-line chat. Assuming you guys were fully forthcoming in yesterday's call, what Avantair needs is owner support--and owner payment. But owners don't seem rushing to trust Avantair right now. I was in a similar situation with a fractional real estate interest in Sedona, and there they addressed the situation by creating an ad hoc "surveillance committee" of sorts. Those few financially and operationally astute volunteer owners got into the details of the business and the financials, spoke with employees, etc., and then reported back to the owner group. That gave the owners much more confidence that they weren't getting a biased view of the problem.
I'm sure there's a way to adequately address the public-company issues here, and what I'm describing is something far more detailed (and far more intrusive to Avantair) than what was the Owner Advisory Committee when I was on it.
Just a thought. If things are as you depict, it would give you guys more credibility.
Take care, Marc
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Post by tmcgowan on Apr 25, 2013 11:13:39 GMT -5
I'm not sure what an "Owners Surveillance Committee" is or what purpose it serves? You either hold management accountable or not? In corporate America, I know what management is and I know what a Board of Directors is. They are held accountable for the company...not an ad-hoc group of well meaning folks who want to dabble in company affairs?
You will end up being jointly responsible for the failure if you insert yourself into the problem.
Sounds like a nightmare to me.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Apr 26, 2013 3:19:55 GMT -5
It's essentially what I described it to be, namely one or more owners giving their view of what's going on inside the company--reporting on it, not attempting to run it. In Sedona it was a single owner who was also a board member of Amazon, and he spent a couple days with management and the employees, giving the owners a different, more owner-focused view of what was going on. That situation was similar in that people were not paying, which was exacerbating the problem. That guy seemed to have some moderate success in imploring owners to get caught-up on their dues, lending some additional credibility to management.
No one ever raised any issues of the guy being "responsible" there, so in that regard I suspect you're seeing ghosts. And the hope--owner input or not--is to help avoid the failure, not simply to avoid becoming partly responsible for it. The latter is easy. Thus far some people don't seem to be placing an extreme amount of confidence in company management and/or the board of directors, or they'd be paying their past-due receivables, although perhaps nor would they place any further confidence in an informed owner's view of the situation. Maybe the current approach of simply denying flying privileges to past-due owners will fix that aspect. Personally, I'd love to hear from an owner with some credentials who had spent some time with the company better understanding its issues.
All that said, absent a suitable volunteer and owner interest, it's academic.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Apr 26, 2013 8:51:25 GMT -5
Flew home from Cabo yesterday--on time, on a Piaggio, with no changes, just like the old days.
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Post by tmcgowan on Apr 26, 2013 11:44:56 GMT -5
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