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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 11, 2013 19:21:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, avwriter!
I have personally called, e-mailed, and texted Ms. Scharrer, as well as called her legal counsel at Adams and Reese, to see if she, as the de facto Administrator of our 401K plan, could personally sign the paperwork to allow me to cash out or roll over my 401K funds. This is to pay back taxes and to stop the pending foreclosure of our home, both valid and common reasons for withdrawing from a 401K plan. So far, this is to no avail. When I talked to Mr. Brian Funkhouser, the Financial Planner that we have been dealing with, he was surprised that this was taking so long to happen. As my second Chapter 7 company in aviation, an unfortunately too common event in aviation, I am shocked about the inordinate amount of time that it is taking to access our funds.
avwriter, you seem to be well connected with the Trustees lawyers office.... Is there any possibility that you could contact them on our behalf and ask them to simply sign our papers to release our funds; It would take a couple of hours to do all the employees. I would gladly volunteer to fly down to help for free. If nothing else, allow for the people who are under serious financial burdens to get their papers signed. I could care less about paying $44 to get transferred to another plan that STILL won't release my funds to me without the signature of an Administrator.
Thanks again for the help, avwriter.
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 12, 2013 2:06:43 GMT -5
Hey avwriter,
Doesn't anybody in the Courtroom realize that AvAero is just a shell company for Kevin McKamey? Also, no mention is ever made of the Avantair offices in Orlando where the records were kept. Did the KMCO office just fall through the cracks?
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Post by avwriter on Sept 12, 2013 9:53:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, avwriter! I have personally called, e-mailed, and texted Ms. Scharrer, as well as called her legal counsel at Adams and Reese, to see if she, as the de facto Administrator of our 401K plan, could personally sign the paperwork to allow me to cash out or roll over my 401K funds. This is to pay back taxes and to stop the pending foreclosure of our home, both valid and common reasons for withdrawing from a 401K plan. So far, this is to no avail. When I talked to Mr. Brian Funkhouser, the Financial Planner that we have been dealing with, he was surprised that this was taking so long to happen. As my second Chapter 7 company in aviation, an unfortunately too common event in aviation, I am shocked about the inordinate amount of time that it is taking to access our funds. avwriter, you seem to be well connected with the Trustees lawyers office.... Is there any possibility that you could contact them on our behalf and ask them to simply sign our papers to release our funds; It would take a couple of hours to do all the employees. I would gladly volunteer to fly down to help for free. If nothing else, allow for the people who are under serious financial burdens to get their papers signed. I could care less about paying $44 to get transferred to another plan that STILL won't release my funds to me without the signature of an Administrator. Thanks again for the help, avwriter. The judge mentioned that she and the trustee/trustee's counsel have been "inundated" with calls from employees who want their 401k money back. The trustee's counsel said the 401k management company is the hurdle, and it sounded like moving the funds to another company should be the fix needed to break this logjam. Hopefully this can be done in a timely manner. I'm really no more connected to the trustee's office than most of you are. I did meet the trustee and the trustee's counsel for the first time yesterday. The trustee's counsel has replied back to my previous three or four emails to her, but it often takes several days for her to get back to me. What the employees might want to consider is designating one person to act as a liaison between them and the trustee -- employees would funnel questions/concerns to this liaison, who would then combine them and send via email to the trustee for reply. The trustee and trustee's counsel seem to have a high workload associated with this case, and the judge implied yesterday during the hearing that neither are really being paid for their work on this case. As for AvAero, I was told by the trustee's counsel that McKamey hasn't been involved with that company since 2008, when he sold his interests in AvAero to the current owner. As far as I can tell at this moment, AvAero appears to be a victim just like the employees, share owners, jet card customers and unpaid vendors/suppliers.
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Post by tmcgowan on Sept 12, 2013 10:45:43 GMT -5
I can't imagine that transferring the 401k funds is necessary to get them released? As indicated in many other posts, all that is necessary is a signature from the "plan administrator" That same person is the one that would have to sign on a transfer to another company?
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Post by dlee on Sept 12, 2013 14:27:22 GMT -5
Everyone, please do not flood Beth Ann with calls and emails. I just spoke with her and she is doing everything she can to have the 401(k)'s released. There have been many recent changes to Chapter 7 bankruptcy laws, and this will just take time.
Also, when I spoke with Beth Ann, she was not aware of any plans for the 401(k) accounts to be transferred to another management firm at an additional cost to the employees.
I have volunteered my time to be the point of contact and to help Beth Ann in anyway that I can. I will help her disseminate information, and post it to the relative sources.
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 12, 2013 15:42:02 GMT -5
I called CPI Qualified Plan Consultants today and had a Participant Request for Distribution form emailed to me. I was told that the ONLY thing necessary for me to get my money was to get a signature from my Administrator, Ms. Lynn Welter Sherman, Attorney, Adams and Reese. I intend to send Ms. Sherman this form in hopes that she may just take the TWO seconds necessary to sign it, just to have one less mosquito in her ear.
I don't want a rollover and I don't care about the penalties...
I just want my money!!
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 12, 2013 16:11:10 GMT -5
The judge mentioned that she and the trustee/trustee's counsel have been "inundated" with calls from employees who want their 401k money back. The trustee's counsel said the 401k management company is the hurdle, and it sounded like moving the funds to another company should be the fix needed to break this logjam. Hopefully this can be done in a timely manner. I'm really no more connected to the trustee's office than most of you are. I did meet the trustee and the trustee's counsel for the first time yesterday. The trustee's counsel has replied back to my previous three or four emails to her, but it often takes several days for her to get back to me. What the employees might want to consider is designating one person to act as a liaison between them and the trustee -- employees would funnel questions/concerns to this liaison, who would then combine them and send via email to the trustee for reply. The trustee and trustee's counsel seem to have a high workload associated with this case, and the judge implied yesterday during the hearing that neither are really being paid for their work on this case. As for AvAero, I was told by the trustee's counsel that McKamey hasn't been involved with that company since 2008, when he sold his interests in AvAero to the current owner. As far as I can tell at this moment, AvAero appears to be a victim just like the employees, share owners, jet card customers and unpaid vendors/suppliers. No disrespect, avwriter, and thank you for all your help... But THIS IS ALL TOTAL BS!! Call CPI (Our 401K Management Company), a nice person will answer and they will send you the form ( a Participant Request for Distribution form) and say "Just send it back" and "we can help you fill it out"...... They seem more than willing to help. If I had Ms. Sherman's signature, I would be getting MY money. CPI IS NOT THE PROBLEM, IMHO! The problem deals with the people who are too busy to sign a Participant Request for Distribution form. That signature is all that separates you from your money... A simple, bleeping signature. I wonder how deep they would bury me in the jail if I forged Ms. Sherman's signature to get MY OWN MONEY BACK?
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 12, 2013 16:19:21 GMT -5
Also,
Has there been any mention of the offices in Orlando or did they slip through the cracks? I believe that is where the aircraft records are stored....
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Post by Volunteer on Sept 13, 2013 9:54:14 GMT -5
The bankruptcy trustee should have given CPI a list of names in their office authorized to sign the 401k cash-out and rollover forms by now. If not, CPI should have been in contact with the bankruptcy trustee by now, as well as informing the former employees of what steps to take if they need their money. Both sides are failing epically.
CPI seems to be a hole-in-the wall operation in Great Bend, Kansas, which is as near the end of the earth as you will find. They have recently been bought out by a larger firm so your money is probably safe. You should have received a quarterly statement from them for the period ending in June by now?
I have no doubt CPI is dragging their feet to keep from coming up with the money and to keep the fees coming in from the mutual funds they offer.
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 13, 2013 11:38:42 GMT -5
The bankruptcy trustee should have given CPI a list of names in their office authorized to sign the 401k cash-out and rollover forms by now. If not, CPI should have been in contact with the bankruptcy trustee by now, as well as informing the former employees of what steps to take if they need their money. Both sides are failing epically. CPI seems to be a hole-in-the wall operation in Great Bend, Kansas, which is as near the end of the earth as you will find. They have recently been bought out by a larger firm so your money is probably safe. You should have received a quarterly statement from them for the period ending in June by now? I have no doubt CPI is dragging their feet to keep from coming up with the money and to keep the fees coming in from the mutual funds they offer. Don't blame CPI for this footdragging...... CPI HAS been given a name.... It's Adams and Reese Attorney Ms. Lynn Welter Sherman, attorney for the Trustee. She is the only thing (her signature, that is) standing between you and your money, NOT CPI. Here is the email CPI sends: Attached is the Participant Request for Distribution form for removing money from the Plan. Also included is a Special Tax Notice with information on taxes and penalties associated with removing your money from the plan. Please be sure to thoroughly read and complete the form. PLEASE NOTE: the form will need to be returned to the employer to complete their portion and to sign the last page as the Plan Representative before submitting it to CPI.
Lynn Welter Sherman Adams and Reese LLP 101 E Kennedy Boulevard, Suite 4000 Tampa, FL 33602
Phone: (813) 402-2880 Fax: 9813) 402-2887 Email: lynn.sherman@arlaw.com
Ms. Sherman has received several of these forms, but for whatever reason is refusing to sign them... Don't blame CPI in this mess: They have to have a signature to give you your money and no one is willing to sign the form. I guess that when you are paid by the hour, things just take a little longer.......... As avwriter said, the attorneys could be heard laughing all the way to the bank.............
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Post by avwriter on Sept 13, 2013 12:57:00 GMT -5
Everyone, please do not flood Beth Ann with calls and emails. I just spoke with her and she is doing everything she can to have the 401(k)'s released. There have been many recent changes to Chapter 7 bankruptcy laws, and this will just take time. Also, when I spoke with Beth Ann, she was not aware of any plans for the 401(k) accounts to be transferred to another management firm at an additional cost to the employees. I have volunteered my time to be the point of contact and to help Beth Ann in anyway that I can. I will help her disseminate information, and post it to the relative sources. Interesting re: transferring the 401k accounts to another firm. Beth Ann was sitting just a few feet away when her counsel told the judge that the trustee is looking to move the accounts at a cost of $6,000, which the 300 or so employees would have to pay. The judge even replied that this equates to about $44 per person, which she deemed reasonable. There was a two-minute discussion at Wednesday's hearing about this that took place right in front of the trustee. Also, if the trustee isn't looking at moving the accounts, then how did the trustee's counsel even know how much such a move would cost and present that to the judge?
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Post by Volunteer on Sept 13, 2013 13:57:19 GMT -5
Ethically CPI should have given you information on moving your funds to an IRA provider also. You can specify that no taxes be withheld at the time of withdrawal from an IRA (but would be due when you file your income taxes). Also you funds would be moved en total from the IRA provider. CPI would not be responsible for withholding the 10 percent penalty or the 20 percent income tax.
As far as replacing CPI with another 401k management firm that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The new firm would still have to get a signature from the bankruptcy trustee before releasing funds to the former employee or sending it to an IRA provider.
I am sure this is not the first time either CPI or the bankruptcy trustee has delt with a Chapter 7 liquidation.
If Lynn Sherman is not answering her emails or answering her telephone I would go down and see her. En mass.
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 13, 2013 14:13:21 GMT -5
I have a brilliant idea! How about somebody suggest to Ms. Scharrer to have Ms. Lynn Welter Shermann, the 401K plans new Aministrator, sign her name on 300 pieces of paper (or have her law clerks do it as deputies), AND SAVE THE $6000.00!!!!!!!!!!! There is no need to waste this money to transfer to another 401K fund as the employees can do it themselves for free. Again, this is total BS!
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Post by whatwouldherbdo on Sept 13, 2013 14:41:28 GMT -5
Ethically CPI should have given you information on moving your funds to an IRA provider also. You can specify that no taxes be withheld at the time of withdrawal from an IRA (but would be due when you file your income taxes). Also you funds would be moved en total from the IRA provider. CPI would not be responsible for withholding the 10 percent penalty or the 20 percent income tax. As far as replacing CPI with another 401k management firm that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The new firm would still have to get a signature from the bankruptcy trustee before releasing funds to the former employee or sending it to an IRA provider. I am sure this is not the first time either CPI or the bankruptcy trustee has delt with a Chapter 7 liquidation. If Lynn Sherman is not answering her emails or answering her telephone I would go down and see her. En mass. [/b]Hey Volunteer, I just spoke with CPI again just now.. CPI cannot move our funds to another 401K plan without that signature from Ms. Sherman, or previously, Santo, Holmes, Roberto, etc. CPI said that our distribution check would be processed within 5 business days of receiving that form with Ms. Sherman's signature on page 8. And it's worse than Ms. Sherman not returning e-mails or phone calls: Ms. Sherman has refused to sign the completed forms from some of our pilots. I like your idea of going down to Ms. Sherman's Office en masse to get those signatures. CPI IS NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!
So, according to avwriter, the Judge, Trustee, and the attorneys wasted a least 2 minutes at God-knows-how-much money per hour to discuss something that is totally unnecessary, the $6000.00 transfer to another 401K firm! So if Ms. Sherman isn't getting paid, I wonder how much she'll charge each of us to get her signature to get out of the NEXT plan. All the characters above probably know their fellow attorneys Santo and Alberto and probably spend their weekends yachting together with them in Ocean Reef. OK, my rants over for now.
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Post by Volunteer on Sept 13, 2013 15:09:25 GMT -5
I seriously would take the completed form (except for Lynn Sherman's signature) down to her office. I would do this up to three times. Then I would file a complaint with the Florida bar association.
I can think of several reasons she is not signing the form. None of them good.
If she does sign it send the damn thing registered receipt to CPI.
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