pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Mar 26, 2013 17:57:34 GMT -5
We had a flight cancelled an hour before departure this morning. It does seem like some system of the owners organizing in case the company implodes might be helpful, and it might also be helpful to have some sort of representative of the group of owners to approach management and/or the board to get a more-realistic assessment of what's going on. Anyone have any suggestions of how that might work? I'm happy to spend some time helping, but it seems like a tough situation to get our arms around.
And I'm sure everyone knows this already, but we're close to the six-month mark of problems. Seems like they started in October sometime.
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theoe
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by theoe on Mar 27, 2013 7:22:49 GMT -5
Good Morning, Sorry to hear that, how was your scheduled trip handled, and did you fly commercial, charter, or just no go? I find it interesting that there seems to be some apathy on the part or many owners, this represents a large investment to just walk away from to me. I appreciate your updates.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Mar 27, 2013 23:05:14 GMT -5
Hi Theoe. The trip cancelled with about an hour's notice was one where I lent the plane to a friend so his 90-year-old parents could fly home from a funeral in Denver (they used the plane to fly to the funeral from CA without incident). My friend ended up chartering a plane to get his parents home. What was particularly troublesome for me about that one was that the message was effectively "the plane's had a mechanical and there's no other plane available, so it's cancelled." That was the first time that the message was pretty much (and nicely and respectfully communicated) "too bad", as opposed to delay while they came up with a solution.
I suspect (or am at least hopeful) that most owners want Avantair to pull things back together, because as I said the plane's awesome and the operational-level people seem like they're just in a tough spot. But this continuous refrain of "it will all be so much better in thirty days" is getting old and seemingly less realistic/plausible as each month passes and no consistency returns to the service.
But I'm rooting for them.
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Post by tmcgowan on Mar 28, 2013 11:25:05 GMT -5
Not looking good for them with the President resigning last week after having been there for only a few months and now the CFO. Can't say that Steve is keeping us informed.
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Post by hrofcr on Mar 28, 2013 12:24:52 GMT -5
A quote attributed to Albert Einstein: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."
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Post by paulschwartz1 on Mar 28, 2013 16:32:46 GMT -5
Is everyone continuing to pay their monthly management fee?
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Post by tmcgowan on Mar 29, 2013 10:59:15 GMT -5
It should also be noted that Steve's last post to this forum was Jan 31. He had several posts in a row the last few weeks in Jan, and has since gone quiet. It appears he has given up trying to stem the tide.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Mar 30, 2013 1:56:25 GMT -5
It does seem like Steve has checked out from addressing concerns here quite a while ago. I sent an e-mail to the new COO by replying to his latest update, didn't hear anything for a week and then resent it directly to him (in case replying to his mass update had some issue) four days ago. Still nothing back from him either, although in my fantasy world he's furiously scampering to right all the Avantair wrongs, with no time for us. In any event, his "bear with us for thirty days" e-mail was sent on 3/13, so we're conceptually halfway through his thirty-day period.
Just FYI, below is the text of my e-mail to him.
Hi David:
Welcome to Avantair; you've certainly got your hands full. I've been an owner of a one-eighth share for eight years now, and you certainly don't need me to tell you that these past five months have been consistently the worst experience we've ever had with Avantair. As is likely the case with most owners, we love the plane and the people and find the current service horrible.
A few questions and comments:
1. While a nice guy with an exceptional idea, Steve is particularly poor at communicating effectively with owners and following through on what he says he's going to do. I suspect that's why you're there. To your credit, even your early communications have been clear, direct and concise.
2. It seems as if for the last five or six months we've been forever thirty days from being back to normal. Please deliver us some reality and some prompt results. I'm admittedly skeptical of all things Avantair these days, and likewise of your two e-mails eight days apart both asking for us to bear with Avantair for the next thirty days. Hopefully we're a week into that month already.
3. You're likely aware of the on-line owners' forum that an owner started. A month or two ago Steve said that he was going to be a regular part of that and then did so for about a week, and he also said that Avantair was going to start its own forum of some sort. It seems like some sort of interactive communication with owners would be a good thing, because I'm not sure any of us really know what's truly going on (or believe it). From at least my perspective, a three-week stand down that purportedly originated from the elevator incident and that resulted in no substantive issues with the planes, coupled with an attempt to improve maintenance, has somehow evolved into a six-month debacle.
4. How about an owner conference call of some sort?
5. Please also turn your attention to the wi-fi issue. If the planes are mired in some maintenance mess, please at least make the best of it by getting the rest of the fleet equipped with wi-fi. We paid for that two years ago, and per Steve's comments on the forum, there were a dozen or so planes with wi-fi a couple months ago, with 3-4 more to come on line each month. I suspect there's still a dozen. And Steve also said that many owners had still not paid for the wi-fi assessment. He never answered my question about what the consequences were for those delinquent owners, but hopefully at a time when there aren't enough planes to go around Avantair is curtailing the flying privileges of those owners not keeping up their part of the bargain.
6. The pilots consistently tell us that no one tells them anything. I have no way to know if that's true, but if it is, that's probably something you should add to your list.
3/30 UPDATE: I just received David's response to my e-mail, and I've posted it below in case anyone is interested. And as an aside, from the info on the Avantair web site, note that much of David's work experience is in companies shown as part of Director Lorne Weil's portfolio of companies. So I suspect that David is someone who has proven himself as an operator to Mr. Weil in other companies, which is probably why he's now with Avantair.
Marc Thanks for your e-mail and input. My apologies for the delay in responding, I received numerous responses to the updates and it’s taking some time to work through them. A few comments on your points: 1. My goal is to provide regular communication although keeping up with the responses in a timely fashion is a challenge!. My MO is to tell it like it is. 2. You are correct in that both communications indicated 30 days and mid-April remains my target. The main driver behind the second update was to provide some additional information and what we need to do to meet our goal. 3. The suggestion of an owner conference call is an interesting one that is worth considering. May also help avoid the e-mail backlog. 4. See # 3 above 5. The goal with the wi-fi is to install these when the aircraft go in for their extended check. As for delinquent owners, we are chasing up the receivables and preventing them from booking trips until their account is made current. 6. Agreed. Again thanks for your input, it is valued and appreciated. Regards
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flyer
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by flyer on Apr 12, 2013 20:21:39 GMT -5
Booked a trip a week out and was told that both days were significantly overbooked and at best there would be significant delays and there would most likely be no aircraft available. This is tough to take when you own a one eight interest in an aircraft and have paid in advance for these trips to operate. Ara things getting any better or are others experiencing a similar situation. What have others done about it?
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Apr 14, 2013 13:05:18 GMT -5
After several on-time flights that had us encouraged, we today had a flight to Cabo (booked weeks ago under the new system with no notification of potential delays) first delayed three hours and then seven hours. The new guy had told me that things would be in much better shape by mid April, but that's obviously not the case, since, well, it's mid April. In reply to the last post about what to do, based on Steve Santo's exceptionally strange last mass e-mail, it sounds like some owners are pursuing some sort of legal action through an aviation-specific law firm. If you Google the names in that e-mail, you'll come across the firm and the attorney. That said, I'm not really sure what that would accomplish, other than perhaps pushing Avantair over the edge. My guess is that there are a number of areas in which Avantair is culpable, possibly including flying the planes more than they were contractually permitted under the early contracts and cannibalizing planes for parts (which, if all the rumors are true, means the planes some of us own aren't even airworthy). I'm personally more interested in seeing Avantair return to what is was, but we're six months into this debacle with company performance no more consistent than when the debacle commenced, so it seems like we're probably kidding ourselves to have any realistic expectation that it will change.
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Post by samlinhart on Apr 15, 2013 14:04:18 GMT -5
I had a very good experience with Avantair this weekend .Flew from
Scottsdale to San Francisco on April 11,and back to Scottsdale on April14.
Flights were on time and Pilots were very pleasant and upbeat.Maybe and hopefully ,things are improving or maybe I was just lucky.
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Post by ethgroup on Apr 15, 2013 17:32:10 GMT -5
We had no issues going into the Masters on Wednesday, and our return on Friday was on time, and excellent communication from Owners Services. So we are very thankful for that, seemed like old times, lets hope this continues for all.
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pintom
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by pintom on Apr 15, 2013 17:45:29 GMT -5
We just arrived in Cabo, as the day-late version of the trip we had scheduled for yesterday but which was delayed too long by Avantair to make the trip work yesterday. The actual logistics of today's trip were great, with very nice and helpful pilots and an on-time departure. That kind of flight, coupled with the awesome plane, does indeed conjure images of the good old Avantair days.
I also saw Steve's "update" e-mail about the conference calls, which I think is a great idea. I wonder whether the owners with whom they spoke today were those who were part of the legal rumbling Steve alluded to in his last update? Their agenda could have been an agenda I would have prepared for a similar call--precisely all the things we all are probably wondering (and speculating) about.
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Post by paulschwartz1 on Apr 16, 2013 8:08:17 GMT -5
I sent Steve a response to his email suggesting he produce a weekly email update to the owners in addition to the conference. If we are able to participate in the call at least we'd still have some idea about what is going on.
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Post by paulschwartz1 on Apr 16, 2013 8:10:09 GMT -5
what i meant to say was I sent Steve a response to his email suggesting a weekly email update to the owners. That way if someone is unable to participate in the call at least we'd have some idea as to what is going on.
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